I was stupid and impatient. If it is flawed, no matter how you try, you will never be able to make the setup as perfect as with correct weight distribution. 137 lb.in in the front and 211 lb/in in the rear. That’s because of it’s balance, which in turn is simply the (read carefully) “Perfect” weight distribution. But the acceleration and braking benefits of a rear-heavy car ARE desirable. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Motorcycles are not much different from bicycles physically speaking. I’ve added massive tyres all round and this has massively affected the cornering speed amd turn in. Then ask which is more likely to occur, win or not win, if you toss them. once the front was lowered slightly more then the rear ( as with the r5 turbo1)!My other favorites were my Renault 5 GT turbo! Βασίλης Μάρκος's answer is great and would be a wonderful experience for parent and child. I am trying to understand why my car handles so poorly. For example, flipping a coin 100 times you'll find you get roughly 50/50 odds of heads and tails. They actually reduce net effective brake force by adding these kits…arghhh. (back into ed) Perhaps you can come up with similar bets (e.g. I want to offer a game to play with your son that he would almost definitely understand and would impart the principles of probability (and the futility of gambling at the same time). To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Customers who are driving must enter on Jefferson Street with their trucks ready to accept more than 50 … With few exceptions, street cars are generally tuned to have understeer regardless of their weight distribution – they are just safer that way… My question for Mr. Milmont is “Why do people swear by these cars and their handling” and many claim that they handle better than Porsches and Vettes?” I’m not trying to be a smart ass, I just want a legitimate answer because I’m also considering purchasing a first generation Toyota MR2 with mod engine, obviously more weight in the rear. That’s pretty much all I can think of for now. You will meet Mr. Wall. An uneven front-to-rear weight distribution mid-corner means that we are overloading one of the outside tyres more than the other, and thus wasting grip of the less-loaded tyre. It ALSO allows us to brake later at the end of a straight before corner entry which again is something that we want so to run faster lap times.. This may be ok for a sports car, but is not suitable for an every day car. As for having extra weight over the drive end (front or rear) to aid traction during acceleration, remember that a lighter car will always out accelerate a heavier car, all else being equal. Yes weight dynamically transfers forward during braking but more static rear weight means more dynamic rear weight during a braking event and thus the rear tires can do more braking work of the total required to slow the car. You seem to have misunderstood him. MathJax reference. Hi guys a bit of help would be appreciated we race a grass roots local league called dirt circuit . A car with minimal power and traction is praised all over the world, because of it’s BALANCE. Fan out to show all the cards. A perfect example is the post directly above mine from professor Jay and his bicycle. Give him time. I would also wonder about the condition of the springs on your car. You seem to have misunderstood him. If everything else is equal, a car should be able to accelerate and stop quicker, but overall cornering ability will be reduced as the rear weight bias increases. - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum, [BLOCKED BY STBV] Amazing Alex Ballast Overload – Allinthenewspapers, [BLOCKED BY STBV] why stagger frt/r wheel & tire sizes? This concept is called classical probability. I guess this would raise the question: Optimal for what? Guessing the odds on the lottery has zero cost to him, because as a minor, he isn't legally allowed to play. Ask him whether the probability of winning is the same if you bought 1000 tickets rather than one ticket. To make cars predictable in turn-in you need aggressive rear wing BUT that same rear wing gets in way while putting power (remember to get maximum output drivers get on power even before steering wheel is straight) And this problem is even more apparent in long turns where drivers needs to stay on power to maintain max cornering speeds (Gs) Bika, I have already covered in the post the older Porsche models which are widely known to be a handful. @JoelReyesNoche Maybe I wasn't clear, but the probability of shooting on target is an example of continuous probability - area etc. This is not saying that this car is going to be easier to drive, nor am a specifying what that weight distribution may be. You say that you have an adjustable suspension kit for your car – I don’t know what this kit includes but general rules of thumb to loosen a car are to add (negative) camber in the front and to stiffen the rear springs and/or roll bars. it’s the other way round…. Humans are biased to the familiar and exciting, so we assume that it is common too. The general rule of thumb when it comes to reducing oversteer is to soften the rear suspension or stiffen the front (which in effect makes the rear proportionally softer). Some of this also has to do with the force vectors wanting to pivot the vehicle over the front wheel. Can I print plastic blank space fillers for my service panel? Then offer the bag to your son, disallowing him to look inside and telling him only that the bag contains blue and red pieces of colored paper and if he draws a red piece, he wins. There seems to be more confusion over weight distribution than any other concept of automotive performance. But igor may say:, ok they need to work more but they are more vertically loaded so they have more grip. Unfortunately, alot of rev/gear heads are simple, stupid people. They are just regurgitating what they read in the magazines. Explain how in the lottery there are millions of losing tickets to the point where he would have to find the red piece not in a small bag, but in a huge garbage bag that was packed full of blue pieces but still only had one red piece. i dont have a motorcycle but i have a bicycle. I am also not ragging on your GT86 which I’m sure is a fine handling car. bet that the next house door you see will be open or closed...it's a binary result, but with unequal probabilities). The u/Fit_Distribution_50 community on Reddit. But tell me about your single seater. I am not a professional driver or a mechanic or a race engineer. I suppose 50/50 is touted as ‘ideal’ in that from that neutral balance, you can access more of each style of cornering. A treat (candy) may or may not like, but mostly likes. I’m sure you are aware that everything in a car is a compromise and there is no perfect answer; but there are ‘better’ answers than others – even when it comes to weight distribution. 2. aerodynamics to put more downforce on the rear driving wheels, and hence improve linear traction. And that is: "probability distribution". Does winning have to satisfy a requirement to profit from the win? The early 911’s also lacked any type of rear wing or spoiler; the combination of of these three things – heavy rear distribution, skinny rear tires, and lift inducing rear bodywork conspired to give the car the reputation of being a handful. This is ideal for my driving style, as I like to brake early, turn in early, and start the car rotating, and power through the corner. I don't think that talking about probabilities formally would be to any benefit for your son. A longer moment arm creates a larger counter-moment against this lifting effect to keep traction on the rear wheels. For a race car though this is not true. Problem is that there isn’t much at the back, other than a solid rear axle (with diff) and the fuel tank, while my leaf spring are also quite light, as they have 5 leaves not 9. Anyhow, its still a car with 4 wheels and tires so the laws of vehicle dynamics still apply. I’ve been reading car mags for quite a few decades now, and have watched more Top Gear episodes than I’d care to admit to so I understand that 50:50 is ‘received wisdom’ and the most comfortable for commuting. According to your son, about half of your shots should be on target, however, given your son is not Steph Curry, you will have again a chance to explain him how the relative size of the basket narrows down the chances that you hit the target about half of the times. I would also suggest reading up on suspension tuning to help you analyze the problem and to meet your goals. So "banana" or "not banana" are not the same kind of thing. Consider a game where two players have to guess heads or tails when a coin is flipped. Its right in the sense of a track car and driving style associated with it, but its partly incorrect as it pertains to a street car and the typical driving style of said street cars. That’s why it’s rear-engined. It is in some ways amazing that any manufacturer would make a street car that is so prone to oversteer; very few street cars today have any at all (at least cars tuned for the north american market dont). Replacing the core of a planet with a sun, could that be theoretically possible? Black you lose. Voluntarily blocking the rear wheel playing a role to give you a the trajectoire you want on loose terrain . I took this car to compete in local national mono series. Point out that there are two outcomes, win and not win. This is because the front brake locks the front tire and causes the bike to try to rotate and flip over the front. Probably not.”, which makes you sound simply retarded. The heavier rear wants to comes around. When you give an example of a race series mandating a specific tire, you are setting up a constraint that is beyond the scope of this post. Instead of providing any sort of answer, walking your son through reasoning it out himself, providing counterexamples to keep him thinking, will result in a far deeper understanding while likely giving him pride in finding the answer himself (encouraging future curiosity and discovery). If you look at any purpose built race car from the late 1950’s onward, you will find none that have a 50/50 distribution. It was quite convincing, and I believed it for a good 10 years. However, you could simulate a lottery at home, using a die. And that's exactly the 13-year-old's problem. The article is wrong. Note that "no, the chance for X is 50%: either you X or you don't" is a quite common meme / joke (at least on twitch.tv). Edit: yet another attempt to get into a non-mathematical mind: It's a banana or it's not a banana. – Better braking because brake force is distributed better between front AND rear, instead of being more front-biased. But, think of the fastest car you know of. This is a CORRECT belief. The heart of probability is about knowing what can occur (which he already understands) as well as how frequently it does occur (which he's yet to grok). 50/50 is predictable and balanced, but by no means the ideal. For example if I said I'm thinking of a number, a digit, between 0 and 9, guess what it is, at first you're 50/50 of being right or wrong ... 1 over 2 ... one guess where you were right or wrong ... right + wrong = 2 possibilities. Much of this confusion centers around the marketing hype manufacturers use to sell their cars. The radius of each conductor is 1.6 cm.… The loss of traction at the rear during cornering, is what will allow the centrifugal forces to rotate the car and destabilise it mid-corner. If there are ten number in the lottery it's 1/10 ... 10% ... ten "per cent" is 10/"per cent" = 10/100 (cent =100) = 0.1. Is it normal to need to replace my brakes every few months? weight distribution 67/33 front aft so we can see it is nose heavy!